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 The point of the island physically moving?

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lights_and_perfections

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PostSubject: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:14 am

Hi all! I just watched season 4 the last episode, When the island physically disappeared when Ben turned the FDW. If the island is moving through time, why would the island also need to physically move?
I've been pondering this question, I'm sure it has been discussed before but I don't recall if there was really something in the show to explain it or just theories we thought up (if you have any I'd love to hear them too)
Also does the Lampost Dahrma Station have something to do with it maybe?
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:47 am

lights_and_perfections, how are you tonight? Glad some one is still awake.

I'd have to look back at the episode but I believe Elloise Hawking, who received her PHD in mathmatics and theoretical physics from Island U., used the Lamppost Dharma Station to calculate the Island position at a specific outside world time. It may be that the Island only moves when the time on the Island is unstable as when the FDW is off it's axis but I don't think so. I think it moves through space always if it were observed from a point outside the Island's sphere of relativity. Why does it have to move? I have no clue. I don't know if this has been discussed before but it's a good question to ask. I'd like some answers as well.
Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:45 am

You hit it! Relativistic theory states that time will be different from three separate perspectives; the traveller, the stationary object, and the outside observer....
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:49 am

I'm in heaven... others (willingly) discussing Relativistic theory! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:01 am

Hey, you two aren't the only ones up this time of night. I'm stuck on the graveyard shift and pretty much the LOST forums are the only things keeping me awake. Laughing

But anyways... I wouldn't know the first thing about Relativity except the very basics of Einstein's theory, but I had this theory sometime ago that there's a wormhole/portal of some sort that leads to the island that actually orbits the center of the Earth in a very ecclectic path. It would actually pass through the Earth itself at points along the orbit and where it intersects the surface is where and when you would be able to find and get on the Island.

I had considered the idea that the wormhole might pass through time as well as space, given the time-jumping everyone went through this past season, but I don't see how it would work that way for some people and not for others. In fact, I was just thinking it might have something to do with one's proximity to the donkey wheel or the Swan station when Desmond got back there just in time to turn the failsafe key, but then of course, Faraday and the rest were nowhere near the Island at that point...

I had also thought it could have something to do with the infamous numbers but that's kind of gone by the wayside. However, what we saw in the Lamppost station definitely got me wondering if there was something to my idea.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:37 am

absolutely Johnlocke.After S4 I gave myself a refresher on physics and determinedly tried to unlock the secrets of quantum physics..It seems quite simple to me now..But you can do yourself a favour by skipping the numbers lol..It basically means that if I am travellin g towards you, my speed will be different from my perspective compared with yours and an outside observer..The pocket of negative energy caused by the exotic matter provides an electromagnetic field that can cause many different effects.The constant movement of the island.The Island I don't believe physically moves.But the unusual amount of energy from the Orchid would cause an electromagnetic field around the Island.This would explain the reason why you must approach the Island on a certain angle.-avoiding the flux points.Island moves because ...I don't know lol..Need to think about it more..
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:42 am

hey iamtheknight..graveyard huh?Man i hated that shift!!. What job? KI think the Island moves because of the wormholes planted all over the world.Remember Hawking mentioned that there were several similar pockets scattered over the world, but the Dharma scientists were concerned only with the one on the Island..I think with all the time travel happening between ther wormholes, the pockets pull each other towards themselves..you actually helped put the words into my mouth..
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:28 am

heh... Glad I could help!

I'm a front desk clerk at one of the hotels at Walt Disney World. And yes, I do work for a real "Mickey Mouse" operation. Best of all, I can get in the parks just about any time I want! Laughing Plus, nice discounts at a bunch of stores and movie theaters in the area, too.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:26 am

Thanks guys for all your insight! I totally missed out on the discussion! After I posted last night I past out! ---So I could go with the worm holes/portals /light travel theory. I'm glad this old question sparked some thought! I am currantly rewatching season 5 (just finished 4 again) it's so addicting! And I always catch new stuff! ----I would still love to hear more on this subject though! It's so wierd that it moved the way it did like the entire island was sucked under water. (but that could not have really happened, no one got wet, right?) And when it went under you just see the top? Why?
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:23 pm

l&p - My guess is that when the Island disappeared it had moved already but the inertia of the water caused it to still be displaced monentarily in the shape of a depression or indentation. To me this just indicates the Island is not anchored to the ocean floor as it would be if created by a volcano but then the Island has a volcano so who knows since the Island is unique. I think it floats.

Perhaps some others have better ideas on this than I.

Very good posts here.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:06 pm

Yeah.. I had work and didn't get home till like 1. I'm usually up pretty late... I come here if i'm bored.

INZ, yep, that's what I'm talking about. People think I'm weird because mt 11 year old brother and I will discuss quantum physics with each other. In public. Very Happy

Also, I think the electromagnetism of the island causes it to push it away from the Earth and the other magnetic pockets. Therefor, it floats.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:47 pm

Considering the unique electromagnetic properties of the island it is not unlikely(intentional double negative) that the island "floats" on the water, not being held up by the properties of the water but by magnetism. If the island was attached to the ocean floor via land i think we would've seen a huge splash as oppose to the light ripples(granted, the shot was a wide shot, size can be disputed) we saw. The displacement we saw seems much more like the displacement we would see if the island had no bottom. Could you imagine if there was a whole section of island underwater underneath the island itself?
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:52 pm

Could there possibly be a time where the island doesn't exist due to it jumping through time? For instance, if i jump into a time machine and go back 1 year, there should be two of me in the past now, but where did i go in the present? Once i jumped into the time machine, did i cease to exist in the now and subsequent future until i return? This is reliant upon the given that time will go on with or without me.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:39 pm

LostINZ wrote:
You hit it! Relativistic theory states that time will be different from three separate perspectives; the traveller, the stationary object, and the outside observer....

suppose for a moment that the Island is at rest in a place where time as we know it does not exist. if this were true we would never be able see the Island from outside it's sphere of influence, because we observe relativistic time. a timeless place we cannot see while we are bound to temporal perception.

I believe when the O6 saw the Island vanish, they were the one's leaving it's sphere of influence. the Island did not move physically ... the 06 moved.

so suddenly they could not see the Island.

if there is no time on the Island and the Island sometimes moves 4-Dimensionally through Space-Time [ the Island was not moving through time : the Losties were time skipping, not the Island .... it was just there ; nor was it moving through Space ... it was moving through Space-Time : you cannot separate Space from Time when you speak of Space-Time ] anyway long story short the Island is always hard to get to.

sometimes however it is easy to get to without following the bearings if you can be in the right place at the right time where the Island converges on it's self 4-Dimensionally as we saw at the Lamppost ... where the Island passes itself in Space-Time ... I dont know the words to explain it proper.

at certain times certain people can just flash to the Island.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:18 pm

Mr Eric, nice explanation but why the ripples?
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:36 pm

error747 wrote:
Mr Eric, nice explanation but why the ripples?

the ripples were the effect of the quantum wave that displaced the O6 from the 4-D locale of the Island, upon the water.

the ripples had nothing to do with the so-called "Moving" of the Island.

the "Moving" of the Island is the Island taking on a 4-D oscillation.

this oscillation cast off a shock wave which the copter felt as well as we saw this very same wave moving through the water from the center of the location where the Island should have been in 3-D space ... except it isn't exactly there ... the Island is out of phase from this universe by a factor of negative 42 hours through 4-D Space-Time [offset is an approximation based on how far "back in time" the body of dead Dr Ray drifted from it's offloading from the freighter till it was found by Vincent on the beach ... also leaving the Island you move "forward in time" the same distance, per "the Constant"]
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:46 pm

Eric, you make my head spin. But it all makes sense! Suspect Question Shocked scratch Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:55 pm

good thing I am only talking about the 4-D aspects and not the whole 11-Dimensional string theory aspect of the thing.

there is another thing going on that concerns the weird energy of the island and its source : a dual neutron star in proximity to the island but in a parallel reality ... this twin star causes time distortion when coming and going to the island and makes small wormholes sometimes which are stabilized by casimere effect of the exotically charged material in the island which has a quantum connection with the neutron star from whence it came.

all of this I gathered over the past few seasons, paying close attention to Daniel Faraday's studies.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:13 am

Please send me your used textbook... I want to know all this... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:19 am

my studies are in my mind and not on paper
I have done a few drawings that might or might not help one understand the "moving" of the Island.
I don't remember where the drawings are now.

all you need to remember is that when you leave the island you go forward in time and when you arrive on the island you go back in time. how far depends on how you go to or leave off of the island. there are many variables which cause many effects. the more the acceleration [ up to a point ] the less the effect. but to be blasted at the speed of light as from a hydrogen bomb blowing up causes quite a pronounced effect ... like sending you 30 years into the future, like we will see will happen next season.

how they went 30 years into the past when they went to the island i do not yet understand.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:23 am

now now eric..come on old fella.I'm not sure this stacks up....but a good conversation starter..
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PostSubject: Electromagnetism just being tapped into now   Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:32 am

error747 wrote:
Considering the unique electromagnetic properties of the island it is not unlikely(intentional double negative) that the island "floats" on the water, not being held up by the properties of the water but by magnetism. If the island was attached to the ocean floor via land i think we would've seen a huge splash as oppose to the light ripples(granted, the shot was a wide shot, size can be disputed) we saw. The displacement we saw seems much more like the displacement we would see if the island had no bottom. Could you imagine if there was a whole section of island underwater underneath the island itself?

You know I was watching a doco the other night about the history of flight.Amazingly by the time they got to our day the subject changed to electromagnetism! They showed how electromagnetic tinfoil and wire could float in the air.They said that flying saucers are already in existence(man-made of course).
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:04 pm

Yes, you can order a flying saucer kit online. It's a small model made of light ferris metal that spins in place over a magnet. Same basic principal, only much larger and many variables.
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:16 pm

Quote :

the ripples had nothing to do with the so-called "Moving" of the Island.

the "Moving" of the Island is the Island taking on a 4-D oscillation.

this oscillation cast off a shock wave which the copter felt as well as we saw this very same wave moving through the water from the center of the location where the Island should have been in 3-D space ...

Awesome idea, i'll have to go back and watch the scene again. I'll look for that shock wave and see how it fits. I'm a bit wary of using quantum mechanics to explain things on lost since i doubt the writers will use it in the end to explain things, mostly since quantum theory is above most peoples realm of understanding. To truly argue out quantum anything requires a broad range of knowledge on the subject that most people lack. I, for one, know very little in comparison to most people about this subject but i can generally hold my own in a discussion. I think this level of intimidation viewers can experience on this specific subject is the reason we don't see more discussions like this between Faraday and Chang. Instead, we get the dumbed down version, between Miles and Hurley. It does make for some interesting theories though...
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PostSubject: Re: The point of the island physically moving?   Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:28 am

The pockets of energy around the world that Hawking spoke of would be similar to the island.She said that there were many of them scattered around the globe but they were more concerned with the one on our Island.To me that suggests that all the pockets are wormholes and the Island's exit is in Tunisia.Imagine if there is a pocket in Nigeria with an exit on the Island????Or one in Tunisia with an exit in Iraq? One in Iraq with an exit in Egypt? One in Egypt with an exit in Portland.One in Portland with an exit in Nigeria....Probably not but I'm enjoying talking about ideas..
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