When did MM's plan start and what was part of it?

The S5 finale really put alot of new questions out there. I have been thinking about when MM's plan first started and have been going through events, mentally. If we assume that only Jacob brings people to the island to "play" then MM has to start when the new people arrive. I don't think Jacob invited Dharma but rather that MM influenced something/someone which allowed Dharma to fiind the island and maybe even allowed the US govt before that (how else did they find the island and want to use it as a nuke test site?)

So, what do you think of the following being part of MM's overall plan?
1. Allowing for Time travel - the wheel, etc,
2. Widmore being sent off the island
3. The idea that Smokie is a judge (Ben'sjudgement)
4. Ben being saved from Sayid's shooting
5. Flight 316 flashing only some back to 1977
6. Jughead (the nuke)
7. Desmond

What else?

what I think :

1. the Donkey Wheel may have been on the Island already when Jacob arrived ... Jacob might be the last of the Ancients to inhabit the Island ... since MM was already aging when we met him we can assume he is a more recent arrival ... and Time Travel is a result of quantum forces that concern the very nature of the Island itself and predates human occupation.

2. Widmore was probably influenced by MM but maybe not sent by him ... free will allows for people to choose who to follow when they get to the Island.

3. Smokie does not concern me.

4. Ben being saved was a side effect of Jacob touching Sayid and Ben's life to come is all a part of Jacob's plan to die by Ben's hand so Jacob's power may be passed on to Jack and friends.

5. Those that flashed back to 1977 that survived were most of those touched by Jacob.

6. Jughead's detonation sends Jack and friends back to the future to win the War for the Island.

7. Desmond was instrumental in the overall success of the Island's plan.

in conclusion though MM may think he is gonna win, Jacob has already anticipated it and is always one step ahead ... and remember the Island is in charge over all, and Jacob is only it's caretaker.

theRealEricRobertson wrote:

Jughead's detonation sends Jack and friends back to the future to win the War for the Island.

Miles says to Jack, "Is that supposed to blow us back through time or something? Because that would be ridiculous..." Seems like a form of foreshadowing to me.

theRealEricRobertson wrote:

Smokie does not concern me.

Smokie doesn't 'concern' me, but I do harbor some curiousity towards it. I am working on a theory about smokie which I will post when I am able to support properly.

i'm telling you guys, find out who put the wheel in the wall and we will have most of our answers..its not just in the wall, but attached to some sort of mechanism that allows time to be manipulated....i dont think ancients (humans, anyway) could master that and not be able to build a toaster for centuries...so, who is responsible for that wheel? i think thats where our detective work should start from...only problem is we havent been given any clues as to who could have been responsible for its genesis

Keep in mind that this civilization, along with any technology that it produced, would have met a dead end on this island. So maybe they could have been advanced and been destroyed in the ongoing struggle.

the same people that engineered the construction of the Egyptian Pyramids were the ones that installed the Donkey Wheel [ notice I do not say "the one's that built the Pyramids" ... rather the ones that figured out how they should be built ... this knowledge predates the Egyptians ]

i hear you snip, but i dont agree...sorry....it just doesnt make sense that there is this technology thats so advanced even for present time on the program, that people cannot or dont age, that an island just moves through time...i have said all along what i believe to be the end game...........aliens or their technology, which i understand alot of people are not comfortable with; and/or jacob is from the distant future himself...along with that times' technology

eric, do you ever get the feeling that the movie stargate, in some regards, has some relevance to this show...in the way (as you stated earlier) that the alien introduced the humans to the advanced technology? and remember the helmets the guards wore...not exactly a match for our statue, but in the ballpark...perhaps they came and left some of their people(?) here to see if humans can handle and be entrusted to this cosmic force....maybe humans are the bottom of the food chain in their world....underdeveloped and overly aggressive and destructive...is it possible thats what jacob and MM are discussing? whether we're worthy enough to have this advanced technology in our lives, and not use it to destroy, but rather use it to heal, unite, and become more as one with the universe.....i should stop before i put on my flower power music...lol

Ok. I hear you, but... If their technology is so advanced... why the donkey wheel? Why not a button, or a telepathic control device? See what I mean?

good question......and i am saying now that these are just theories i tell myself while watching...to answer your question; perhaps if they went back in time with the technology or it is actually alien technology, maybe it was introduced so long ago that the wheel was as good a tool as any at the specific time...once again though, this are just thoughts and if i see something i feel is a better answer, i'll let these go

True that snip, advanced tech built with old tech = seriously confusing. I'm under the impression that it was an ancient society that was much more in touch with "god" or a mystical realm than our current society. This would allow for seemingly amazing things to happen built on old tech. Unless it's the Capstan from the Black Rock, which would make the wheel 100-200 years old.

Don't worry. I'm not hatin on you. Your ideas are as good as mine, as good as any.

I do believe that many civilizations have come and gone on this island. some just left bigger marks than others.

Love some of the ideas hat have come up. I would like to get back to my originaal theory/question and try to figure out how much on what we have seen may be attributed to MM and his plan. It seems that so much now seems tied in, after seeing S5 finale.

I think we've strayed a bit because the original question is very difficult considering we have so little info on MM. If only we could see what his powers are we would be able to theorize much better on how past events were truly effected by his actions. At this point, we know much more about Jacob than MM. We don;t even know the connection between MM and Smokie for sure, but some of the clues present point to them being associated. This mixed with the normal misdirection of the writers makes for a lot of theories without evidence that can go many different routes. It makes my brain hurt sooooo much!

Ditto on the brain hurt - I am looking for ideas and theories about MM's involvement in stuff we have seen. Example - all the TT flash times; Seems interesting that they arrived just in time to tell the Others to bury the bomb in 1954, and have Locke wander into the Others camp and tell Richard he will be their leader, in the future. We know the "Locke as Leader" is complete BS, all set-up by MM so, can we draw the conclusion that MM somehow araranged for the TT flash to take them to 1954 OR did it just happen that way and MM then took advantage of it? I woudl say the former - they were there for such a small amount of time (haha) that any plan could not have been thought up, on the spot. That's the sort of stuff I am hoping to get some of the great theorists and whacky idea people (which I think we all have some of both in us, just to be here) to think about and post their thoughts.

We see so much intertwined - did that happen "coincidentally" or was it manipulation (indirectly) by MM to help guide the outcomes? He does tell Jacob "You have NO idea what I have been through to make thi shappen (or something to that effect). His tone implied that he was behind a lot of what we saw happen. Almost like he was mocking Jacob's free will belief in an "I used their free will to make all this happen, and they didn't even know it. They believed they were making decsions freely but I was puppetting them the whole time" way.

mm has been working since day one. according to the missing pieces clip where christian in the jungle telling vincent to go wake up jack. he has work to do.

we have been told for a while now that there is "a man behind the curtain" pulling the strings on the island. Now we have been made to feel that this person was Ben then Jacob but maybe the person they were refering to is the MM. also with the wheel being future technology, the technology couldnt B more primative. I think it works in the same way a tap/faucet works (i'm from the uk and we call them taps). Basicly there is a massive pocket of energy beneath the island and in the same way a tap/faucet releases water when turned i think the wheel realeses some ov that enregy which we know from the episode one of season six from miles dad can b used to time travel.