Locke/MM theory.

I just thought of something. Pretty much all of us assume that MM and Locke that killed Jacob are the same person. What if Locke really did come back to life and is following MM's orders? I am not saying this is true but here is a theory:

MM convinces Ben to kill John by telling him to do whatever John needs done through Alex (John needed to die, Ben knows this.) MM then resurrects Locke on Island. MM then gives Locke his battle orders. Shadow of the Statue group work for Jacob. MM plants a FAKE dead body of Locke for Shadow of Statue group to find. Jacob connects the dots (not quite sure how) but can't let MM know he knows. He proceeds to act like Locke is MM and Locke acts like he is MM. Ben kills Jacob, Jacob will come back to life, but MM knows that. Locke and MM proceed to win this great battle, as the good guys.


Just an idea..

im not sure, i think thats alot for the writers to jump into, and when locke (mm) turned to jacob and said 'you dont know what ive had to do to get here' sugggests to me it is mm and not locke following mm's orders.
good origionality but i cant see it happening.
do you feel mm is in fact the good guy then?

Well, I'm not sure. The show clearly has religious ties, making the whole Christ thing with Jacob being Jesus, Ben Judas, MM the devil and Richard Peter possible, but my gut says MM is the good guy.

If LOST were to take a religious turn such as a story or stories from the Bible (hypothetically) I would have to say that yes, Jacob would be God (God of Abraham), MM would be Satan (Lucifer) and Richard is like Moses (messenger from God to the people). Ben could be so many other characters from the Bible, yes, he could be Judas and yes, dead Locke could be a representation of Jesus but I don't think that's what the producers have in mind. I think they have to consider that not all of LOST fans are in tune with Biblical stories and that those fans would be at a loss and would not be able to appreciate the ending.

just because people may not be Christians, that doesn't mean they can't appreciate it. Many literary tales use Christian themes. Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, the list goes on and on.

True, but all of these Christian themes are kind of a turn off to me. I don't have strong feeling one way or the other about God and religion but i find Bible stories and scripture boring. If they tie Lost together with religion so closely that it mirrors events of the Bible, i will certainly be a bit dissappointed, for one. I don't mind a loose religious tie such as what we've experienced thus far but please, please, please i don't want Wed nights to feel like i got duped into watching the "Modern Story of God Jesus and Moses".

there is another theory going around about MM and Locke and I'll post the link here : http://forums.abc.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&webtag=lost&tid=21209

let me quote ludington's theory in it's entirety :

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Submitted by ludington231 on 12:03 PM

it hasnt happened yet! locke on the beach dead is the very same body thats with ben and jacob, but MM hasnt possedsed the body on the beach yet, it will happened later

2 locke bodies.... one in the statue & one on the beach, both are the same body....there is only one john locke body...and the original locke is dead on the beach and will not become the guy in the statue with ben until later.............whatever the people do to dead locke on the beach, MM finds a way to become john locke later in future, and then goes into the past, to where we see him standing in the ocean, while Illana and ceaser are talking about him. At that moment we know dead locke is on the plane and now MMlocke from the future is there also to kill jacob.......same body.

we have all scene losties that go into the past and know that there are 2 of them from different times, and i believe this will be the case, with MM turning into locke..

example : ethan & richard get juliet to come to the island, but juliet hasnt delivered ethan yet.

so john locke dead on the beach will become mm later in time and then have to go back in time so that people think he is the original locke they all know.........

I hope this give you guys new ideas on this subject

p.s. After MMlocke burns jacob, i think he will dissapear and leave ben all by himself, because MM hasnt become john locke yet on the beach, and he will have to dissapear until he posseses the locke on the beach......................

this is my summary :

Quote :

according to quantum physics, until something is observed it is only a possibility ... those inside the statue and those outside are both a black box to each other : those inside are not observing those outside and likewise ...

it is possible for there to be only one body as long as no one is observing both at the same time

it is possible for MM to posses the dead Lock body in the future and leave the Island then return in such a way to arrive before flight 315 lands so that they would find him alive then find his dead body later ...
if it is Locke possessed and resurrected, he would still believe himself to be Locke ... maybe up until he gets in there face to face with Jacob ... Locke seemed to not know where Jacob lived and MM knows where Jacob lives ...

all MM needs to do is walk out of the Statute in the form of Jacob so as to touch the dead Locke at night when no one is watching for the exchange to take place ... at that moment [ since MM is still in Locke's dead body, though it may now look like Jacob ... and Locke's body is shut back up in the case ] when one version of Locke's body touches the other version of Locke's body then only one version would remain ... the form of Jacob would vanish unobserved [ cuz it's nighttime ] then Locke leaves the island any way he wants but returns when flight 315 is coming.

to add to this, when the MM possessed dead Locke returns to the Island - via one of those Windows Ms Hawking was talking about - he must forget that he is MM, but still have the desire to kill Jacob ... or he remembers everything ... both the memories of Locke and MM.

I'm glad you put this up Eric. I do believe that it is important for us to see two John Locke's in the same frame or have one character observe them both, otherwise it's the 'dead cat in a box' theory. I'm not so sure about them touching to combine into one. I am under the impression that if they were to touch, there would be dire consequences, such as the world changing in an instant. I don't think it would be a good change though, i see it more as a cataclysmic space and time event. I will have to do more research to know exactly why. Remember the rabbits in Dr Chang's video? He seemed very distressed that they were even so close to each other, even exclaiming 'don't allow them to touch'.

You know...

I never heard Ilana, Bram, or Frank say that the Locke in the box was indeed dead. His being alive would certainly explain his lack of decomposition.

Dr Chang's video with the 2 rabbits was a hoax designed to spread doubt as to the possibility of time travel ...

it works this way :

1. make a fake video where something impossible happens.
2. allow conspiracy nuts to get a hold of it so they can publish alleged "Proof of Time Travel".
3. the idea of time travel is then lumped in with everything else published by wackos.
4. the idea is dismissed by the general public as a hoax.
5. the real experiments are then carried out in secret undisturbed.

there is much evidence that the video is a hoax if you watch it carefully, starting with the fact that the glass jar that was supposedly knocked off the shelf when the 2nd bunny appeared, dropped straight down from above ... also the shelf that the 2nd bunny appeared on was not on screen in the video at all until the camera turned to look at the bunny ...

so the whole thing cannot be used as proof for any theory about what happens if 2 versions of the same thing from different times come in contact.

as for the whole MM - Locke thing, I think MM is just manufacturing a body ... I am re-watching the episode this season when Ben is judged by Smokie ... Locke [ MM ] goes off to Look for a rope ... Ben is judged innocent ... Alex appears ... Alex vanishes ... Locke returns ... I believe MM took on the form of Alex to scare Ben into following Locke's orders and not killing Locke ... because MM is pretending to be Locke.

Smokie is not MM, as some have said ... Smokie works for the Islands ... the ancient hieroglyphics in Smokie's Temple showed the ancient gods having a confrontation with Smokie ... he is as old as the Egyptian gods and is from their Dimension ... MM is just someone that got stuck on the Island and died and remained as a ghost of some sort and finally found a way to return ... Locke being dead had something to do with it ... and it could be Locke's body from the future too maybe ... but anyway it seems MM must take the form of dead people ... it was MM who appeared to Mr Eko as Yemi, using the apperance of Smokie as an excuse ... so to not draw attention that there was a ghost on the Island.

Good call Eric. Since i knew it fas fake to begin with i never looked for signs that it could be 'fake' fake. Imagine that, propaganda for fiction...only with Lost. I want to go back and view the video again to see if i can verify but i do remember thinking how funny certain things are in the vid. Is there any solid proof, like Darlton debunking via podcast?

Quote :

as for the whole MM - Locke thing, I think MM is just manufacturing a body ... I am re-watching the episode this season when Ben is judged by Smokie ... Locke [ MM ] goes off to Look for a rope ... Ben is judged innocent ... Alex appears ... Alex vanishes ... Locke returns ... I believe MM took on the form of Alex to scare Ben into following Locke's orders and not killing Locke ... because MM is pretending to be Locke.

Agreed, something is funny here. It seems that they never show up together. I wonder if Ben will figure this out first. It's hard to BS a BSer.

Quote :

Smokie is not MM, as some have said ... Smokie works for the Islands ... the ancient hieroglyphics in Smokie's Temple showed the ancient gods having a confrontation with Smokie ... he is as old as the Egyptian gods and is from their Dimension ... MM is just someone that got stuck on the Island and died and remained as a ghost of some sort and finally found a way to return ... Locke being dead had something to do with it ... and it could be Locke's body from the future too maybe ... but anyway it seems MM must take the form of dead people ... it was MM who appeared to Mr Eko as Yemi, using the apperance of Smokie as an excuse ... so to not draw attention that there was a ghost on the Island.

MM must certainly be special though. I doubt some guy who died on the island would be formidable enough to cause such problems for Jacob. I doubt they will both be 'Gods' because of how much that would upset the average Christian viewer. I for one, would welcome an ending with multiple Gods. That would lead up to a hell of a finale. I think MM might be related to Jacob, or that MM belongs somewhere else but is trapped on the island with Jacob as his 'jail guard'. MM might have the ability to cause lots of problems for mankind if he is released. This would fall more in line with the Christian belief that Satan still roams the earth trying to corrupt souls and there is a constant power struggle between God and this troublemaker. I foresee a very Bible friendly ending....

I was watching "Dead is Dead" last night when John assured Sun that he was the same man he has always been even since his resurrection. I understand that he could be lying, but I think theres something to it. We need to figure out how John can be both himself and MM. Because in every lie, there is some truth.

Well said. This would make Claire also, "herself yet, not herself". Maybe even Christian. Maybe these people are dead, but don't realize it. Kind of like the Sixth Sense, but everyone sees dead people! Notice how Locke had all of his old memories. He was reminiscing with Ben on the beach about the first time they met(how romantic) right before Ben 'kills' Jacob(MM/Locke kicked him in the fire, no?). For him to have his memories makes the idea of possession much more confusing.

It does jive with those that believe that smokie is also MM because apparently smokie can scan memories. I personally do NOT subscribe to this.

Locke in 'The Incident Pt 2' says to Jacob, "You have no idea what i've gone through to be here." I am thinking along the lines of MM posessing Locke since birth or something like that. Richard was there at john's birth... but... probably UNrelated.

I just know I would HATE to think that Locke is gone for good...

Sniphneris - About Dead is Dead and the comment to Sun. Could he be referring to the fact that he has ALWAYS been manipulated and used and that is still happening (through MM). I also agree that Smokey is not MM. The "you have no idea" comment could be interpreted in many ways (what a surprise, huh?). 1. He is responsible for ALL of the happennings from the minute they arrived on the island to orchestrate the killing of Jacob, or even planned it before. 2. It could be an indicator that Jacob really did know - read it as an arrogant "you have no clue that I have planned and manipulated everything that has happenned to get to this point you idiot". That would indicate that Jacob has been running a counter plan since day 1 and MM has missed it (I lean towards this idea myself). I think Richard visited Locke to check out his claim from 1954 that he would be the leader. Richard even says he visited Locke a few times and saw nothing special in him. However....there was still the pictures of teh smoke monster Locke drew at a young age. How?