Wild thought about Jacob using Ben.

Right off the bat I will just come out and say it. What if Jacob and Richard were using Ben (without Ben knowledge) as a sort of agent to extract information about the Mystery Man's plans/intentions. For starters, Jacob never revealed his physical presence to Ben, so Ben never really knew what he looked like. Also, It has been said that Jacob does not like technology.. yet Ben has said that Jacob wanted Walt to be put into Room 23 which is full of technology, plus he used the vending machine to pull the candy bars out at the hospital and has been for a cab ride.. yet this actually goes against my theory sort of. Also, Christian has appeared in the cabin to "SPEAK on Jacob's behalf." though as far as we have seen, it was the Mystery Man that was posing as Locke and most likely posed as Christian into order to get Locke to do his bidding. So this might have been said, not sure if I read this or not, the words "HELP ME." that Locke heard was actually was Mystery Man reaching out to Locke for help. It would seem to be it's the Mystery Man that doesn't like technology, and change, since he is the one that seems to think humanity and the progress of man always ends in conflict.. The only thing that doesn't add up though is.. the ORDER to put Walt in Room 23. Your thoughts please.

Wasn't it Ben who said that Jacob didnt like technology??

If so, I think Ben was probably lying . He hadnt ever actually met Jacob so even if someone told Ben that Jacob didnt like tech he wouldnt have personal knowledge of it. I think Ben just made it up.

And when Alana says someone else has been using the Cabin I think she is referring to Christian (who, as you pointed put, may or may not be the real Christian, and may or may not be authorized to speak on Jacob's behalf).

This opens up so much for debate, it is not even funny! First off we now can assume that Ben just knew about an empty cabin, and used it to put on a show for Locke. But if Ben were really leader of the Others, why would Richard not let Ben know where Jacob is? How is it that the leader of the others does not know Jacob or even ever met him, much less know where to find him should the need arise? I don't blame Ben for wanting to put a knife through Jacob, and if I were him, I think I would fit Richard with some cement shoes and send him for a visit with the fishes.

Is Ben's life story like John's? Akin to the story of Job, tested time and again to see where his loyalty would lie? It also makes you wonder, how many sides to this montage of players are involved? Is this some type of world war, with more then just a couple of sides? I really have to wonder if this is not a game on a more global scale then we could even imagine....

Just thinking about it a bit more.. My little theory might explain why Richard was so cool with letting Widmore, Hawking, Linus, and Locke believe that they were the leaders of the others. Because he and Jacob knew the Mystery Man was out there trying to find the "Loophole", manipulating the losties with ghosts and visions, etc.. and they were simply watching over the board "sort of speak" to see what moves their opponent was making.. This might also fit for who ever wrote the theory about Jacob not really being dead but it was his plan to be stabbed to death and kicked into the fire.. as was said. the topic is wide open to debate. and I am all ears.

Frogs - I have written about MM really killing Jacob by kicking him into the fire and that he is not dead. The Other leadership picking criteria is a bit vague. Who actually picks the leader? We know that Eloise, Widmore and Ben were leaders and Locke was set-up by MM to be the leader, only because he told Richard in 1954 that he would be leader. If Jacob selected the leader then you would think he would have told Richard, NO, about Locke.

So, as part of their rules, maybe Jacob gets to chose who comes and MM gets to manipulate the environment, and choose the leader, indirectly? Of course the big question is WHY does MM want to kill Jacob? Perhaps they are confined to the island until one wins and have been there so long, playing the game, that MM has had enough and just wants it to end. Jacob says it only ends once.

I believe Jacob will go into hiding, allowing MM to believe he is dead. MM and Ben will leave the statue and then the stuff will hit the fan when they all see 2 Lockes. Lapidus may be a candidate for the next Others Leader then.

I agree that Ben is a big pawn in the scheme of things. However, I'm not quite sure for which side. I'm thinking probably MM's side. Simply because I don't believe Ben has a shred of goodness in him. He is manipulative and has delusions of granduere. He does only for what is best for him and not anyone or anything else. I also believe that that is his big weakness. He is easily manipulated because MM and Jacob know how to manipulate him. His desire to become the "leader" again is causing him to do anything to get there. I also agree with frogs and logs that this was planned all along by Jacob. He knew that Ben would kill him because of his megalo -maniacal tendencies. Ben's just being used.

So my next question is based off of esutt's comment.. Does Ben know which side he is on..? Has Richard fooled Ben into believing the Mystery Man in the cabin was Jacob knowing full well that He and Jacob imprisoned MM into the cabin and safe guarded it by the circle of ash... OR... Has ben known all along who's side he was representing. My gut feeling is that he was used. I think "and this may have been said before" that Locke split the ash around the cabin.. It may very well be as well, and makes some sense, that now that we know Locke's body is really the Mystery Man, that's is why Locke was not around when Alex came to Ben to tell him Locke was the leader now. Because the MM can't be two people at once. I would like to tie in the smoke monster somehow.. but I am still not certain that the Smoke Monster is the one and the same "MM without a body." I still agree with someone's theory about the Smoke Monster being a nano-bot like thinga-ma-gig.. as in Tesla's creation/thought.. that scans peoples memory..

lostorconfused - i think that is the million dollar question you're asking and at it on all our minds now.. WHY are MM and Jacob there?

I don't think anyone knows about MM, except Jacob, not even Richard. Seems gthe "rules" are that Jacob's name can be used in a godlike way, Jacob can bring people to the island but then MM can manipulate the playing field and try to sway the players, indirectly - he can't come out and say, "I am Jacob's oponent, here's what I need you to do" Hence the need for the loophole. I also do not believe Smokey and MM are the same entity, but could be a referee of sorts? People will point to the judging of Ben to support teh MM/Smokey arrangement but, maybe Smokey, as referee does judge, MM knows that and actually used that to help his cause.

I think smokie is an entirely different entity. I think it is the island's judge regardless of Jacob or MM. The only thing that I don't get is why it let Ben "off" when he was being judged. Maybe because Ben really thought he was doing the right thing, or maybe because he was really sorry for allowing his daughter to be killed, I don't know.

Oh, and I don't think Ben cares which side he is on, whichever side is best for him.

I think Ben believed Jacob was non-existent, since he never got to see him, but used the idea of Jacob to try to benefit HIS own plans.

I don't believe Ben has a side but his own. Again, I don't think anyone knows about MM except Jacob. Maybe part of their "rules":

1. Jacob gets to be known as the top guy on the island - His name is referenced a lot as the top guy. Even Ben tells people, everyone has a boss, essentially.

2. Jacob gets to choose who comes to the island - reference teh ship and MM saying "You brought them here".

3. MM can alter/manipulate the environment for the game - I believe he has some control ove Smoky and can take on appearances of other people.

4. MM cannot appear to people as himslef or directly tell people what to do.

5. Ostensibly, free will has to be allowed.

So, Ben, like many 2nd tier leaders, take the commands from the superior and interprest them into action.